(0:00) A lot of people confuse the fundraising around and stuff
(0:03) They do not know when to start when to raise one and when they actually need me and how an entrepreneur will actually know that
(0:09) They need to raise fund. I think that
(0:11) I mean, how do you know if you need to raise funds if you ask this then you need to raise funds
(0:18) This is the answer
(0:28) Welcome to Strugbits Unplugged. Today, I had the opportunity to speak with Moshe Cohen
(0:35) CEO of Zippor Media and a pioneer in ad tech and cryptocurrency
(0:40) From an awarding video ad to tackling crypto volatility with CVI, Moshe's journey is all about
(0:47) innovation
(0:49) So let's dive into his story.
Thank you very much for joining in Moshe
(0:54) Thank you so much for having me here
(0:56) Same here same here. I have been all day all night excited for this. Yeah, me too
(1:07) I'm very well.
Thank you. It's all good. I'm good
(1:11) Amazing.
All right, Moshe. Let's start talking about I have a lot of questions by the way, but
(1:17) We're gonna go step by step
(1:19) so let's start with Zippor and I want you to know how did Zippor start and
(1:25) What was your first big success in ad tech?
(1:32) so
(1:33) Zippor started while I was
(1:37) During my university studies. I started to
(1:43) I took computer science
(1:46) At the university and then during my studies
(1:53) I got connected to my other co-founder
(1:57) We were working together
(2:00) on another company and then we realized that
(2:05) there is a
(2:07) Gap in the ad tech industry that if you solve the gap, then you can really be successful and make money
(2:15) And
(2:17) And this is how we started with the idea of solving this gap which later became
(2:24) somewhat the
(2:25) The way that we were building businesses
(2:28) finding
(2:30) Some business failures or gaps and then filling those gaps with solutions that we created
(2:37) So we started Zippor I was still studying
(2:41) Because I was still under the conception that you know
(2:46) if I have a degree then I have work later and you know, I can I
(2:52) can really
(2:55) Become independent financially on the go and
(2:58) so I was still holding my studies and
(3:02) Then we started a company and the idea was that back then it was more than 10 years ago
(3:06) I think it was like 12 or 13 years ago
(3:10) The video advertising has just started
(3:14) in the attic space and advertisers were shifting some of their budgets from
(3:19) traditional banners to
(3:22) Video advertisements it was first the luxury of bigger brands bigger companies because video production was so expensive
(3:30) but then there was a shift right from
(3:34) First on the digital space from regular banners to video but later on it
(3:40) It came also from the television the regular television budgets into the video space
(3:46) The problem was that the there wasn't place to advertise those videos
(3:53) back then
(3:55) most of the video content that you saw online was YouTube and
(3:59) Then if you're an advertiser then you had one main solution which is advertised on YouTube
(4:05) But it was so expensive because YouTube was charging
(4:09) You know 50 80 whatever
(4:14) Dollar CPM's and though there were no alternatives and we thought that
(4:21) if we take a regular banner space and inject a video player into the
(4:28) Regular banner space
(4:30) Then we can create new inventory that wasn't exist earlier.
Mm-hmm. And this is what we did
(4:38) We basically bought a regular banner space. We injected an HTML 5 player into this banner space and
(4:46) we played a video on the regular banner space and it was it was amazing because
(4:53) the price of
(4:56) Advertising a video ad was very expensive and
(5:01) Banners were you know was pretty common. So people were paying less on that
(5:07) so the margins were amazing like we could really there was a lot of potential and we can we could really grow and
(5:15) And we started doing it on mobile
(5:17) There were other companies doing it as well, especially
(5:21) The innovation in in the attic space was really great
(5:27) And we grew very rapidly
(5:31) From
(5:33) My co-founder and myself to 50 employees
(5:38) You know during down the road
(5:42) From a company that is not making any money to 50 million dollars a year
(5:49) And
(5:50) And I think that this was the first success I had as an entrepreneur and then you know, I realized
(5:59) What it takes and what do you need to do in order to really?
(6:03) Go yourself
(6:05) as an individual like financially and from obviously from the emotion side of things because I
(6:12) Really felt connected to this journey like finding a problem finding a solution
(6:17) Then, you know growing the baby to the phase where it's like giving value to others and
(6:24) and really making money out of it and then
(6:30) growing the company the company is like an organism and
(6:34) you fill it up with people and you have the culture and you have everything and
(6:39) after Zippor I've built a
(6:42) Lot of different companies some of them were successful and the others were not that successful and
(6:48) each of the companies had
(6:50) Like completely different culture, even though that we had we were the same founders the same entrepreneurs
(6:56) Each of the companies was completely different
(7:00) So the companies which you founded later on
(7:04) Were you did you found them with the same founders or with different partners?
(7:11) Yeah, I mean some of the cases for it was the same founders in others we had
(7:17) different mixes it was really
(7:20) Dependent on the case like in terms of the technology and the experience that was required to build a company at the beginning
(7:28) the expansion of building more companies was
(7:33) Was more of a global expansion like we were highly concentrated on the US market
(7:39) This was the biggest market for us
(7:43) Mm-hmm
(7:43) And the second company that we found that was doing the same thing with the same technology that we develop but on the Latin American
(7:50) Market, which was also going massively
(7:54) So it was more of a
(7:58) geographical expansion rather than
(8:00) building other companies, but the appetite was big for creation for building stuff and
(8:06) Then we quickly
(8:08) Built more companies that was doing that were doing different stuff
(8:13) Like not the same thing not the same technology. And so we needed different partners. Okay, I got it and I
(8:22) never needed that you have studied computer science because I have studied computer science as well and
(8:29) I have straight computer science, but I'm not that good engineer as my
(8:33) And I get this feeling from you as well
(8:36) I really I was always more of a marketing and business side person and I still remember when I used to sit and
(8:45) Actually most of the university people used to think I am a student of a business rather than a computer science
(8:49) Because I used to be in extracurricular activities.
I used to do public speaking. I used to you know, arrange even and stuff
(8:56) so one day I was sitting in a in a
(8:58) In a computer class and I was trying to write a code and a few people were just walking
(9:04) Outside and they came inside the clinic. What are you doing? I said I am studying
(9:08) This is my class.
You are a computer science students. We do not believe you. We thought you're a business
(9:14) You know a lot of people think that computer science students, you know cannot run businesses they are not
(9:21) business minded people, but I think
(9:24) Sometimes people are like us as well.
So what just to let you go a bit more
(9:31) Of your university time. What made you choose computer science? Like why you choose it? I
(9:37) I
(9:38) Mean just to put it on the table. I
(9:40) Didn't finish my studies because we started a company and we quickly
(9:46) Grew and I had to travel some so many times
(9:49) To conferences and especially to the US and then I was I mean I kept missing exams and
(9:56) Failed a lot because I wasn't there. So I decided to pose my studies
(10:05) I mean from the day I remember myself
(10:08) I always like technology and innovation like it was an excitement for me like to see a computer (10:15) I was playing
(10:17) computer games and
(10:19) I mean I was stunned by how amazing it is like, you know
(10:24) it's a whole world like and it connects you with so many things like the ability to
(10:30) You know from a laptop your ability to do so many so many things as a human being
(10:36) I mean it always done me
(10:39) and I think that I
(10:43) mean at some point during my regular school I
(10:48) Chose
(10:50) to study
(10:52) Computers as well and I was programming a little bit in a very basic level and I liked it
(10:59) I mean the logics and
(11:01) The like the logics behind it and also the creation like building a code and you know
(11:06) And then you have a software or an app and you can you can do stuff that the app does stuff like it
(11:12) It really attracted me
(11:15) but I
(11:17) I can really relate to what you said
(11:19) I think that during my studies there were a lot of people that were so much better at coding than me and
(11:27) I knew that I mean I can be successful in
(11:31) Being an engineer or CTO and it's a definitely a journey that I can take
(11:36) But I felt that my heart is in a different place
(11:41) Like I think that I was always on the gap between like being a CEO and some sort of a CTO
(11:48) You know always on this gap. I always understood technologies. I was always able to talk with engineers
(11:55) with my employees and everything about
(11:57) their developments and stuff like I'm not a kind of a CEO or a founder that was
(12:04) Detached from the side of things like okay, you do your magic and just give me that software
(12:10) Okay takes you three months fine
(12:12) like I can really get into the
(12:15) deeds of everything and understand what they're talking about and their challenges and it helped me as
(12:21) as a co-founder, but
(12:24) But my passion was definitely the creation and stuff
(12:27) My passion was definitely on the other side of things like get me the product. Let's talk about the product
(12:34) But not writing the code necessarily. I
(12:37) Get it. I get it.
Okay
(12:41) Some say marketing is
(12:43) Manipulative. What's your perspective on this? I
(12:48) Think it's true in some sense
(12:51) Because you have to get a message in
(12:55) To people in a way that will get them excited about it or thinking about it
(13:01) So you have to work with some manipulations, I mean if you go very straightforward like yeah, we have new shoes and
(13:10) We sell it if you want to buy new shoes then click here. No one will buy it, right? But if you
(13:18) See Nike, right? They advertise their brand as something very powerful like
(13:25) You want to be wearing Nike because it will be powerful and you can just do it, right so
(13:34) yeah, branding and brand messaging and
(13:40) Marketing in general they have to use some manipulation.
I think that
(13:46) If you take it to the bad context and obviously they're like there are some advertisers
(13:53) That are less legit and they do manipulation on bad stuff like, you know
(13:58) I don't know tobacco companies and others that might be
(14:02) bad influential on people
(14:05) But in general, this is how the world was
(14:09) Okay
(14:11) Just to think about in support
(14:13) Do you guys have any kind of?
(14:15) Policies in support that what kind of ads would run and what kinds of had would not run or stuff like that about the authenticity
(14:21) Of the ads or something
(14:24) So we were always like working with certain
(14:27) verification tools
(14:29) the there were always
(14:32) Verification tools in place for zipper because you work with publishers and we you work with advertisers
(14:39) So publishers they want to make sure that the ads that you're serving are legit and that you're not serving anything
(14:46) That might be harmful or might you know
(14:50) Yeah
(14:52) So you always we work with third-party tools to scan that and then from the other side
(14:57) you have advertisers and they want to make sure that the people are actually seeing the ads and there are no boats and
(15:04) Invalid traffic and things like that. So yeah, it's mandatory today
(15:08) I think the space is so evolved over the years when we just started no one knew what?
(15:14) Invalid traffic is no one paid attention to it
(15:17) Also from the other side no one talked about malicious ads and things like that
(15:21) But over the years it became standoff like if you are a company that works and for instance
(15:26) We work directly with Google. We are an MC about of Google and support
(15:31) So you have to work with validation tools and verification tools?
(15:35) Otherwise, you know, they'll kick you out.
That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah that
(15:42) Very interesting actually and just to let you know do not worry of
(15:48) Giving a long answers because how doesn't gonna loves it
(15:51) He loves the guest who speak a lot because he says my editors then can make the content out of it
(15:57) So he's always like bring the guest who speaks a lot
(16:02) Okay, so
(16:03) Moshi, let's talk about cryptocurrency and CVI
(16:08) What caught you interested in crypto currencies and was there a specific moment or experience
(16:19) So, I think I
(16:22) Really felt that the attic industry is becoming
(16:27) heavier and more
(16:29) concentrated and
(16:30) A lot of the budgets are still going to the big operates.
It was always the case, but I think that it became
(16:38) It became a space with a lot of regulations and a lot of standards and it's much harder to move around and also like
(16:48) It's been through a lot of innovation
(16:52) And I think that
(16:57) That for me as an entrepreneur
(16:59) It's important to always move and find yourself in positions where you can actually bring value and you know
(17:05) Innovate and I felt that the crypto space was definitely a space that was
(17:12) Interesting for me. I thought like when I got connected to it and I really understood what's the what's behind
(17:19) the crypto and
(17:22) Then I had a moment when I felt like this is definitely the future
(17:27) It's the this is the future like it's it must be like
(17:32) It must be an
(17:34) History is being made right now, and I want to be part of it. I want to be on the pitch
(17:38) I want to be
(17:40) innovating and building stuff in an industry, which I think will be the future and
(17:46) This is that just I took one day the decision to stop doing everything
(17:50) I do on a tech like I keep consulting. I keep being active in in the companies, but I
(17:57) Took most of my forces into the crypto space
(18:02) Amazing and when you when you took decision, which year was this?
(18:07) It was
(18:09) Three years ago three years ago
(18:12) There was a boom in crypto at that time. I remember yeah, and the crash. Yeah, and the crash
(18:18) I lost a lot of money.
I lost a lot of
(18:27) It leads to another question that how do you balance creativity and
(18:33) Practicality
(18:34) Yeah, it's I
(18:37) Mean, I think that I just have this ability to do that
(18:44) And as I said, I think that the people around you are the most important asset that you have
(18:51) This is this is what actually I
(18:56) mean
(18:57) help
(18:59) Businesses grow and succeed
(19:00) so I always try to bring these people that they ask questions and they say what they feel and
(19:10) They are not just yes men
(19:14) So I always try to bring this kind of people around me
(19:18) To work with them and I always work in a very flat mode. Like I'm not a
(19:24) very high level
(19:28) Founder that sits there in their office and you can hardly approach they are they I
(19:34) Think that I managed somehow
(19:37) to let them feel that they are
(19:41) Their co-founders and I think that this is true in a lot of the cases. They're there even
(19:47) Even in just the feeling they're co-founders.
They
(19:51) They really design and help you grow
(19:54) Help the company grow from the initial stages so they are and they need to feel like that
(20:01) Amazing a lot of
(20:04) Young founders must be listening to us and we have a community of very young founders who do not know much about
(20:12) Fundraising and stuff. So could you briefly tell explain them how it works?
(20:18) How it because a lot of people confuse the fundraising around and stuff
(20:22) They do not know when to start when to raise one and when they actually need me and how an entrepreneur will actually know that
(20:28) They need to raise fund. So could you briefly tell them I
(20:32) Think that I mean, how do you know if you need to raise funds if you ask this then you need to raise funds
(20:40) This is the answer
(20:42) the idea of raising funds
(20:45) Can help you accelerate stuff, but also can get you on their feet on your feet
(20:55) Because I
(20:56) Think it's very hard to succeed. Otherwise, you need to always take care of the financial side, right?
(21:02) You want to hire employees you need to make money if you finance the company from your own pocket
(21:07) Then sometimes you lose sometimes you gain you're into this this
(21:11) Retrace of you know of the cash flow
(21:14) It's also the same case when you raise funds because you raise funds and then you're not making you're still not making money
(21:20) You need to concentrate on the other round right to keep sustaining the company and a lot of a lot of founders
(21:26) I know which sold their companies. I mean in a lot of the cases there are two one concentrate on
(21:32) You know on just fundraising and the other is managing the company
(21:36) It's like a full-time job and sometimes you raise the initial funds and you grow fast
(21:42) And you don't need to keep raising funds and your company is successful. So there are so many cases
(21:47) But for the younger entrepreneurs, they are not they're not
(21:52) Aware or they don't have the knowledge about fundraising to keep it very simple and short usually how it works
(21:59) I mean, there are so many variations, but and
(22:03) you can start raising funds from
(22:07) Friends families angels investors like smaller amounts.
Let's say up to
(22:14) 500 K as an initial step
(22:17) And usually it is being done through a safe
(22:21) Process which means that there is no valuation
(22:26) There is no actual valuation to the company
(22:28) But people are putting their funds because they know you will get to another round and the other round you will get
(22:35) Valuation to the company and they will get the discount price
(22:39) You know on their fundraise
(22:42) So safe is usually a very easy round to do because you go to people they have money and they want to invest in
(22:52) They want to invest in
(22:54) You know new venture startups when you say well, is it pre-seed or pre-seed is different? Yeah, it's pre-seed
(23:02) It's before seed. Okay, and then seed round is usually the round after
(23:10) and
(23:10) seed round has
(23:12) valuation and
(23:14) If they invest in your company, they get equity and also if you if you if you did a safe round
(23:21) Then you get equity partners from the safe and from the seed round
(23:25) then usually the
(23:28) between safe and seed
(23:30) Then the mild the milestones are they might be they might not be very big
(23:38) But usually if you want to get from seed to round a then you need to show
(23:44) Growth you need to convince investors that you're on track, right?
(23:49) Because on seed round usually you're usually with something very initial
(23:55) you probably don't have users if it's a consumers app or
(23:59) Businesses or you know, if it's a sauce or whatever
(24:03) You don't have
(24:05) you don't have
(24:09) a lot of revenues
(24:11) You have pretty much just a dream and a team that people believe in and
(24:17) usually
(24:18) From seed to round a they want to see some growth or something like the dream is still valid
(24:26) Yeah
(24:26) So usually they I mean
(24:28) I don't know if like you guys are building something that they believe will change the world or
(24:32) You're on track with numbers and they see that that your growth is valid that you can then go to round a
(24:41) And then there are like the rest of the rounds following round B and whatever it depends on the company and their needs
(24:48) But I guess that if you're a young entrepreneur and you complete the seed round and you brought yourself to round a then
(24:54) You know, you already know what you're doing and you keep doing that. You don't need my advice
(25:01) Amazing
(25:02) Thank you so much motion for your time.
(25:06) I really enjoyed having a conversation with you!
